Well some say that FIRST,CERT,CIAC are a pack of ...(sorry I am eating right now so this goes away). I guess that you have to take those groups for what they are and not put the blame on them. I would like to know a few things about CERT(I know part of the answers but well let's play candid). I would like to know what objectives do have cert in regards of their potential(workforce, material, budget). I just want to remind all of you from the network admin to the simple lowely user adminsitrating his sun on his desktop, CERT was created in a period of time where there were around 200k hosts on the Internet. in the past years the growth of internet has followed an exponential curve. Have the teams like CERT or FIRST have had their growth rate following the one from the numbers of connected hosts? What is the status of CERT and FIRST within the liability generated by the disclosure of sensitiv informations. If you have a firefighter brigade and that its operation range would grow, wouldn't you provide it with more material more personnal so that it can fulfill its duties succesfuly. IMHO CERT has nor the human resources nor the means to actually reach succesfuly its goals, so maybe it would be good that they reconsider their objectives or even that the first at a larger scale does that... I think that CERT,FIRST do a good job within a certain domain, but that they are not anymore able to reach the goals that were basically setted. Regards, K. Saouli PS: ==== This text does not engage in anyways ETHZ nor the math department nor any company I work for. This text is relflecting only my views. -- Karim Saouli Math Department of the System administrator Swiss Fed. Inst. of Tech (ETHZ) Room: HG G 14.2 S-Mail: HG G 14.2 Email: saouli@math.ethz.ch ETH Zentrum Phone: ++41-1-632-2230 CH-8092 Zurich FAX : ++41-1-252-3401